Talk:Justice League (animated series)
Season 1 & 2 Episodes * I propose merging the "Episode X" part 1 and "Episode X" part 2 articles. I would list both production numbers, but since they're both the same story, it would be redundant to have two articles. These episodes are clearly one story unlike the "story arc" episodes, which flow into each other but tell seperate stories. --BoneGnawer 17:11, 10 March 2006 (UTC) :* I'd support that, but let's just do it for the Justice League series, and some other agreed upon instances. For the most part JL made hour-long episodes that were later split up. Other series (JLU, BB, BTAS, and so on specifically made 2-parters with separate parts for suspense and sometimes a slightly different story (JLU's Once and Future Thing 2 parter benefits from 2 pages).--Tim Thomason 21:04, 10 March 2006 (UTC) ::* Sounds good to me. --BoneGnawer 21:24, 10 March 2006 (UTC) :::* I'm not entirely against having one article for multi-part episodes; I do not, however, agree with listing them as one episode. For starters they have different air dates, so listing them as one episode is not only inaccurate but also misleading. I understand why you would want to use one article per multi-parters, seeing as they enclose one whole story ― BUT some parts don't have the same cast as the other ("Only a Dream," "Hereafter" etc.). One article with information about two episodes (parts) may be messy with different cast lists, summaries, quotes, notes, references... I think the site would look neater with separated episode pages. Almost every other site list the episodes separately (TV.com, TVRage). Given that DCAU Wiki is exclusively devoted to these shows, I see no sense in us staying behind just for some obscure preference. ::::If you are gonna take the air dates clause wholeheartedly, then you'll have to put "Injustice For All" after "Fury" and "Legends," which is clearly erroneous as evidenced on the Production Codes. Season two was broadcasted back-to-back because the network demanded it. Bruce Timm and his team had to intention in airing two-parters as one 40 min long episode, so cataloging them as such is not being faithful to the show. ::::Having said that, whether we stick to the original decision or not, I think that at least in the Appearances section of each character's profile we should indicate which part a given characters made a cameo or was mentioned. The main reason: precision. Saying that Metamorpho was mentioned in "Hereafter" is only too vague. I see no harm in indicating "Part 1", even if that link will refer to an article covering both parts. ― ThailogTalk 19:34, 13 November 2006 (UTC) :::::I disagree with separating the episode articles, mostly because they are a single story, so it makes more sense to have a single synopsis. However, I see no harm in referencing an individual part as in the Metamorpho example above. --BoneGnawer 19:54, 13 November 2006 (UTC) :::::: That's another misconception. Even though they are one whole story, each part stands on its own ― it has one solid plot with a cliffhanger. Would you list the show 24 as one whole episode? Take "Hereafter": in part 1 the League copes with Superman’s apparent death, while part 2 follows Superman on this mysterious world. Other than your P.O.V., do you have any other evidence in which you support your decision? The official source listed the episodes as separated parts with different synopses, and so does the DVDs... So I see no real reason to list them as one, other than your own preference.... :::::: I’d like to hear someone else’s opinion on this, besides from the absent admin/bureaucrat. ― ThailogTalk 19 :::::::I've essentially agreed with you, one article for the synopsis, with events, appearances, etc., referenced by individual parts. These are two parts of the same story, not separate stories. :::::::I would write a synopsis of each season of 24 as an individual story, but I don't see the similarity. Episodes of 24 are even less able to stand alone than episodes of Justice League. What a network or creator may have intended does not trump what actually happened. Lucas may have intended Greedo to shoot first, but what actually happened was that Han shot first. Similarly, Bruce Timm may have wanted to air the parts separately, but that didn't happen. Production numbers are unknown to the general audience. They're details of production that have little to no bearing on how the audience experienced the show. Its the viewer experience that is important. Most people feel a little resentful when they experience a cliffhanger. Why? Because the story isn't finished. They have to wait a day, a week, etc., to see the rest of the story. :::::::Anyway, I think a good compromise would be to keep the single articles in order to have a unified synopsis but add the relevant production numbers and airdates for both parts. The cast & crew sections could be subdivided into Part I, Part II where appropriate. Episodes that were originally aired together without a break or separate credits should remain one article with one set of data, such as BB "Rebirth", STAS "Last Son of Krypton", etc. --BoneGnawer 20:44, 13 November 2006 (UTC) :::::::::Oh, I though you meant to have one article for each two parter with no indication whatsoever of which data belonged to which part... I think I go it now. It's just confusuing because we have no examples of what we are talking about ― there's no article for any two parter yet. :::::::::Oh, and for the sake of argument, Greedo kinda shoots first now. :) So, mistakes sometimes are rectified ;) ― ThailogTalk ::::::::I think when listing episodes on series pages or under Appearances, they should be kept separate. However, having Hereafter Part 1 and Hereafter Part 2 both redirect to Hereafter would seem practical. Within the entry, for characters only in one part we could have 'part 1 only' or 'part 2 only' and so forth. Perhaps as a template even. ::::::::And then if we ever actually do summaries, we can break down the plot synopsis by parts. Anyways, essentially agreeing with BoneGnawer for the most part there (since he got to reply before I did). --Gamehiker 20:48, 13 November 2006 (UTC) :Oops. I only read this after making the table. Bummer. Well, for what’s worth, I think that episodes should be separated. Considering that they are so in the DVDs releases, it would make sense having separated records for each episode, even though they are fractions of multipart episodes. We could more easily catalogue cast, and crew ― that are not always the same for both parts ― and separate quotes, references and so on... but feel free to reverse it if you don’t agree, since you made this decision months ago ― ThailogTalk :I like the table, but I still prefer to stick to the earlier decision on the multi-part episodes. I'll change when I have a chance unless you have the opportunty before I do. Thanks. :::-- BoneGnawer 16:32, 15 September 2006 (UTC) ::I changed the links on the table so that now each part links to its main article. ― ThailogTalk Other Multi-Part Episodes I believe the following should also be given a single article: * STAS Last Son of Krypton (Aired together) * STAS World's Finest (Aired together) * STAS Little Girl Lost (Aired together) * BB Rebirth (Aired together) * SS A League of Their Own - like the JL episodes, this was one story broken in half --BoneGnawer 02:07, 11 March 2006 (UTC) : I agree with the ones that were aired together, since with the exception of Little Girl Lost, they have been considered "movies" by some. A League of Their Own is a tricky situation for me, since even though it is connected, it aired separately, and both parts work as a single episode (with a cliffhanger or continuation of a plot, similar to "His Silicon Soul" with "Heart of Steel")--Tim Thomason 19:34, 26 May 2006 (UTC) From Image talk:Hrotalekstarcrossed.jpg: ---- :Starcrossed was originally released as a direct to DVD movie, then as a Cartoon Network movie. The "parts" were instituted only in subsequent reairings. Regardless of the airings of the three-parters, *I* took the image from episode 3 of the season 2 DVD, so the image is actually from part 3 of the episode. The point of the Image Edit page is to acknowledge the source of the image, and its source is the DVD season set ― not the direct to DVD movie ―, which has the episodes split up in parts; if it had been taken from the DTDVD movie, then it should be like you proposed. ― Thailog 00:03, 5 January 2007 (UTC) ::I believe we have agreed to identify episodes as originally aired. The home video media that the actual screenshot was taken from is irrelevant. Starcrossed is one entity, according to its original airing, similar to BB: Rebirth or JL: Secret Origins & The Savage Time. These points and an agreement/decision on the subject have already been made here Talk:Justice League (animated series) --BoneGnawer 00:11, 5 January 2007 (UTC) :::We agreed upon linking three- and two-parters to only one article, but I'm sure we also agreed that we could be specific and indicate which part of an episode a given character makes a cameo. I think this criterion can be conveyed to the image descriptions. This one should indicate the part (Starcrossed, Part III), but link to one whole article (Starcrossed). ― Thailog 00:19, 5 January 2007 (UTC) ::::That compromise was for episodes that aired apart, such as The Enemy Below or The Call. For those that aired together, the "parts" are inventions of the DVD authors and/or Cartoon Network scheduling staff, and irrelevant when discussing an episode. If this topic requires further discussion, it should be moved here to keep the discussion in one place. --BoneGnawer 00:28, 5 January 2007 (UTC) ---- I misunderstood, then. I thought that we would have one article for two parters, but the content would be separated by parts (which are not "inventions of the DVD authors and/or Cartoon Network scheduling staff", but the actual creative team's intended broadcast form) and each part would have its respective information (cast, quotes, etc, pertaining to that respective part). Just because "The Last Son of Krypton" aired once as a one hour movie, it doesn't mean we can't appropriately separate the data inside its whole article. Every single other website does it; we that took upon ourselves building a DCAU, should be the most the detailed as possible in cataloging data. The only reason why JLU is composed of single episodes, is because CN told Bruce Timm "to get rid of the two-parters". So, season 2 should be perceived as a two-parter episode season, even though they aired back-to-back (under CN's directive). Networks often screw up episode airings ("Injustice For All", Futurama) and fans often turn to the DVDs for an "official order". And DVDs are what last and what should count. Imagine this scenario: someone reads here that Volcana appeared on "Only A Dream, Part I", then goes watch the episode and DVD and sees Volcana on part I, and not part II. This equals a consistent and coherent database. Do you propose that the appearance list on that article should credit Volcana for "Only A Dream", implying that she was on both parts? However, having Hereafter Part 1 and Hereafter Part 2 both redirect to Hereafter would seem practical. --Gamehiker 20:48, 13 November 2006 (UTC) Since you didn't react to this, I assumed you agreed. Episodes like "The Enemy Below" and "Hereafter" should have one article each with two sets of data for each part, regardless of their original broadcasts. We should not base ourselves upon the original airings or how the Network decided to air the episodes for ratings strategies. If we take the original broadcasts as the Holy Bible of the DCAU, then we have to respect the haphazard airing order of B:TAS. ― Thailog 01:33, 5 January 2007 (UTC)